Episode 15: Keeping Sober in Style
Robbie Shaw:
This is Champagne Problems, where we come together to explore the gray areas of drinking. This is a judgment free zone where we can all take a look at how we make decisions about our relationship with alcohol. Welcome back everybody. We've got a special co-host in the house today. Our very own executive producer, Charlotte Cameron. Charlotte, welcome.
Charlotte Cameron:
Thanks Robbie. I'm so excited to be here in a different capacity today.
Robbie Shaw:
She's a delightful person. She's superbly professional. She has a psych background, which lends itself perfectly to our mission.
So, today Charlotte and I interviewed Jen Batchelor, the founder and CEO of Kin Euphorics. Kin Euphorics is a new beverage company, looking to replace alcohol. I think that is the initial mission as they were creating this. And now it is something that people want to drink. It is a mood enhancer. So, it includes adaptogens, and nootropics, and botanicals, and herbals, and it's a very, very healthy and natural way to boost our moods. Jen will dig deeper into how all that works. First of all, how wonderful of a person she is. And I mean that more so in the sense of how fun she is to talk to. She's just full of energy.
She's obviously super smart. Laughing, jiving with us, having a fun time doing the interview, like that's music to our ears as we do a podcast. Second, I really liked how she spoke about culture. She grew up in Saudi Arabia, so she has this Eastern philosophy foundation and there's this wholeness to her, and this quest for wholeness and connection, when she dives into the various cultures across our globe, ultimately, but starting where she grew up and began her life. It was super interesting to hear how she spoke about that from a genetic aspect and how that plays into the creation and the evolution and the development of different cultures. I've studied cultures before. I've studied sociology and I've never heard it talked about in that manner. And it just lit me up.
Charlotte Cameron:
Oh, me too. I was so excited to speak to her and it did not disappoint. She's really interesting.
Robbie Shaw:
I think this is all fairly brand new. It might fall under a category that we've covered, but the info and the details and all of that stuff was so informative and interesting.
Charlotte Cameron:
Yeah. This was such a fun interview. I really can't wait for everybody to listen.
Welcoming Jen Batchelor, CEO of Kin Euphorics
Robbie Shaw:
I know, me neither. Let's do it. So, we are here with Jen Batchelor, from Kin Euphorics otherwise known as Jen of Kin. Welcome to Champagne Problems, Jen.
Jen Batchelor:
Thank you so much Robbie it's so good to be on.
Robbie Shaw:
It is our pleasure. We have followed you for a good while now, and we all love you. We love what you do. We love your mission. We started the podcast and our mission has evolved and become more detailed. We realized that what you do and how you do it really aligns with us. So, we knew we wanted to get you on.
Jen Batchelor:
I love it. Well, we're definitely in sync. It just brings me so much joy to get to chat with y'all because you know exactly where I'm coming from and I know your audience does too.
Robbie Shaw:
Yeah, absolutely. So, let's inform them. First off let's just get to know Jen Batchelor. Where were you born? Where'd you grow up, education interests, those kinds of things. If you could do a quick bio.
Jen Batchelor:
Oh, sure it's a long and windy road. So, I'll give you the cliff notes. But I was born in Miami, Florida. My dad was in aviation. He started out in the Air Force and then ended up working for Saudi Airlines, which is the Royal Family's Airline in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. So, we ended up moving there with him when I was about eight years old and we lived there for about a decade. So, my interests were vast. I at one point wanted to be a Marine Biologist. Then I thought about being a teacher because they saw that all my teachers got to travel everywhere. I just really love travel.
I love cultures. I love rituals. Clearly that's been something that has been so prominent in my life. Just exploring them, respecting them. I have so much reverence for the way that people come through their upbringing and the poetry that is built into their chromosomes. It comes out through your life. You might even negate it and reject it a little bit when you're growing up, but then it's inevitable for it to impact everything that you do. And that's very much the case with me. When I came back from Saudi, I brought all of those traditions and that whole vast and varied worldview into everything that I did for better and for worse. So, that's me in a nutshell.
Robbie Shaw:
Wow. I've never heard it put that way. That was so eloquent and an interesting way of thinking about genetics and chromosomes and culture combined. I'm learning all that about myself as we speak. You moved there when you were eight. Did you come back and forth to America and did that spark a lot of the travel and that kind of thing?
Jen Batchelor:
We were very fortunate. We didn't have two nickels to rub together, but my dad got to fly us all for free. And so we traveled everywhere as far and wide as we possibly could. Spent a lot of time in Indonesia, Turkey, Europe, Africa. I feel very fortunate to have that in my background. We would come back to the states to see family twice a year. So, definitely got our miles in there. But for the most part, it was like weekend trips to Bahrain, Lebanon and just really exploring the Middle East as well.
Robbie Shaw:
Living the dream. That is so cool. And then where'd you go to school?
Jen Batchelor:
So, in Saudi, there was an international baccalaureate school where we're sort of all lumped together. My graduating class was like 90 people. And coming back to the states, it was funny because I ended up coming back here as a result of circumstance rather than choice. My brother was born here and it was just a year or so before 9/11. And for me it was like, I’ll come to be with him and then I'll go back to Europe and I'll go study there and continue my travels. Fate had other plans. And so I decided to stick around and go to college state side. And I wanted that quintessential university vibe. I wanted that quintessential bricks through brick and mortar, like brick Southern insular campus, literally like where you can't drive through the campus, you're just on campus with your kin and your friends that you make at school and you're living on campus. And so I went to Florida State University for my undergrad.
Robbie Shaw:
Oh, nice. So let's talk Kin Euphorics. I got to say, I do drink them. I'm not just going to sit here and pump you up because you're on. I started drinking them before you and I even talked. And the first thing I noticed that was coming into my podcasts, I was able to recall words better.
Jen Batchelor:
I love hearing that because at the end of the day, when we're together with friends, when we're sitting at a bar, why do we need to go and make ourselves even sillier, less present, less everything. Why not help ourselves come back into ourselves? Remember things, reminisce better, make a bigger impression and make a better memory while we're sitting with the people we love the most. That's never been more relevant than today, especially if we're doing a virtual Zoom, happy hour or even a client meeting where you just want to do a toast, virtually, whatever it is. You want to be super present. You want to be articulate especially when you're taking clients to drinks or you're on a first date or something like that. So, I mean, great segue to why we even started Kin and why we formulated the way we did. We just wanted to leave you better off. We wanted to leave the experience of drinking with a friend, and actually improve your life.
Charlotte Cameron:
When Robbie told us that you had agreed to come on and interview with us, we were so excited. And I told him that I had been to a wedding recently where the bride who does drink alcohol had decided not to drink because she wanted to be clear headed and joked knowing I was a fan of the brand and ended up sending me a picture afterwards and said “my wedding memories brought to you by Kin Euphorics.” So, whatever you all are trying to do, putting the product into mainstream social situations, it seems to have really worked. And that's definitely one of those quintessential moments. Where you want to have your wits about you and be present to what's happening, but also can so easily get caught up in the excitement of being celebrated and celebrating with family and friends. I just think you guys have done an amazing job of creating a product and marketing it so it can be part of mainstream social behavior. I'm really excited to learn how you guys have done that so well.
Jen Batchelor:
Thank you so much. And that was by design. Obviously we did not skimp at all in terms of building our brand. We didn't just outsource away our logo. We didn't take the minimal route, which by the way, when brands were being built back in 2015, 2016, when we were first contemplating this, it was the peak of minimalism. It was ‘let's do hunter greens and really simple fonts for those designers out there.’ I certainly was hell bent on making sure that the logo was sexy and sophisticated and that it could outlive us all. That it could actually just be timeless in that sense. That it showed respect for the type of person who would decide not to drink for any reason on whatever occasion.
I wanted you to feel really good holding a can, a bottle, anything that we made because making that choice to not drink for whatever reason I know from experience, it's very empowering. And I don't just want a Shirley Temple on my hand necessarily every time. Not knocking Shirley Temples. But at the end of the day, when I can hold something that sparks a conversation and inspires someone else, that's a slam dunk for me. So, I'm grateful to you guys for noticing that and recognizing it. I do feel like it's part of what brings people together around the drink when it's out and about.
Robbie Shaw:
What was the point where there became no room for alcohol?
Jen Batchelor:
Great question. I reflect on this a lot because I don't know if it was one particular breaking point moment or if it was just that I've had enough. I do remember. I was very, very impacted by a quote that I read about Warren Buffet, where he started talking about how he always envied the morning people. He said, "I'm just not a morning person. I'm not a morning person. Look at all these morning people and what they're able to accomplish." Until one day he said, "If I want to be a morning person, I just have to tell myself I'm a morning person. I have to decide today. I am a morning person."
And from then on, this is a man who wakes up at 04:30 in the morning, gets his McDonald's on his way to work. I mean, he's a creature of habit and he did that by not only sheer force of will, but understanding that thoughts are very powerful. And for me, it definitely took that moment of just reflection, looking at myself in the mirror and saying, do I want to be a person who runs their life or do I want to be a person whose life is run by alcohol? And I wish I could remember the date and the time and everything, but I remember that being the tipping point where it was like, oh yeah, I do have a lot more power and more say in this that I'm giving myself credit.
Robbie Shaw:
How has not drinking helped you perform at this high level with presentations and speaking to crowds? It gives me anxiety watching what you do.
Jen Batchelor:
Me too. And five years ago, I would have been paralyzed by the thought of any of it. It is really crazy to think about how much self doubt I was filled with when I was a regular drinker. Constant self doubt, constant anxiety about the future, wrong thinking just for me. Just negative perspectives, limited beliefs. All of the things that you do hear about when you get into a really good self-help book binge or any of these programs. But at the end of the day, it is really true. And even in my first experience with limiting alcohol in my life or eventually eliminating it for a spell. I think for me, it was, okay, well, I just need to fight this demon. This is a demon that I'm up against, and it's this big fight with me against this big beast that seems unbeatable.
And I think once I learned about the Vedic philosophy, once I was able to just pare it down into its elemental things and not be against it, not be at war with it, but be at peace with it. And understand that, okay, well, it is limiting me from rising up and being my best self. It's literally giving me less energy. It's clouding my thinking. If I could just give myself nine months where I eliminate this thing and fill my life with helpful things, let me just see where my life goes. And that love that my life was filled with, that clarity, that energy, it filled that void and then some. Like my cup overflowed and I was like, what is this world? This is fucking awesome. I feel great. The people around me are dope. I'm inspired. So, that then of course becomes the fulfilling thing.
Robbie Shaw:
Yeah. Don't need addictions anymore. I've been alcohol-free for 15 years now. And there is a population that doesn't try to teeter into mimicking alcohol, that world. But I was not one of those people. I drank NA beers as soon as I cleaned myself up and it was good for me. But now there's an option of something to drink that actually does enhance mood. And that is new and that is unique, and that is different than anything I've ever seen before. Of course you got your Red Bulls, but I think those things probably are killing everybody in the next 20 years. But now we have something healthy and holy cow, it's really exciting.
Jen Batchelor:
I don't know what it is about me. I am very thirsty. I am that person who needs a drink in my hand at all times of every social encounter or even during my workday, I always have something in my hand. And so with Kin the way that we thought about it and we can dive into dosing if you guys are interested in hearing a little bit more about how the ingredients come together. The idea is that you should have a couple of drinks just like theoretically in the world, the ritual, before you're really into the social experience.
Before you're like forgetting that you even have a drink in your hand and you're completely focused on the people and the environment and the experience. So, for me, I'll have a couple of Spritzes at four or five, the happy hour occasion, and then I'll go into non alc beers, and then I'll continue to explore because that's my prerogative, that's my joy, that's my interest. But I feel so good doing it. It's not like I'm counting drinks at that point, which I think is really what puts the power back in the hands of the drinker.
The Benefits of Kin Euphorics
Charlotte Cameron:
That's so interesting. Can you talk a little bit more from your perspective or maybe the collective perspective of this group you have working together at Kin, what are some of the benefits that you think people might be able to anticipate experiencing or seeing when they cut out or start renegotiating their own relationship with alcohol?
Jen Batchelor:
In a nutshell, there are a number of cognitive benefits. So, we thought first, if we're trying to feel something, change our mood, whatever it is, what is actually responsible for mood. It's the endocrine system in the brain. We have to acknowledge that before we start to design for an experience around the types of ingredients that we use at Kin and ultimately what led to us using things like nootropics and adaptogenic herbs. You talk about alcohol consumption, all you can really accomplish with alcohol is getting drunk. That is what happens and whatever form we can call it wine, we can call it tequila, we can call it whiskey, beer, whatever you want to call it. At the end of the day, the psychoactive function in those drinks is derivative of alcohol or it comes right from alcohol. And it's a GABA induction. There's a lot of things that happen. All of that happens in the brain. But what do we talk about when we talk about alcohol? We talk about the liver, that's it?
My liver is going to pay for this tomorrow. Okay. But your brain mass is also going to be less. You're also going to be dehydrated. Your brain is going to be dehydrated, brain fog, sleepiness, all of the things. So, all of the pain points that we talk about again, to connect the dots happen in our hormone imbalance and in our brain. So, for me, it was okay, what are we trying to accomplish? Just high level. We're just trying to help people feel good, relaxed, talkative, dancey, whatever it is that we all believe alcohol is helping us accomplish.
We found out something really fascinating about the 4:00 PM, 5:00 PM hour. Both from the Eastern tradition of, if you guys are familiar with the circadian rhythm, how the body engages, how the mind engages with the time of day, placement of the sun, our exposure to the sun. All of that affects our mood. And also from the neurochemical standpoint, what's happening to the brain at the four or 5:00 PM hour. It's the same thing. It's symbiotic. You can call it Western or Eastern. It's happening. So, part of what happens to us, of course, there's the siesta moment at three, 4:00 PM where our bodies are like, maybe we need a break and that's in a normal, everyday lifestyle setting. We're all living in urban environments. We're stressed the second we wake up because we're checking our phones. Things are happening in the world.
So, when the altered state itself is just living our lives, it takes a lot more to get back to homeostasis. So, at 4:00 PM when we're like, hey, we need a nap. And we just keep pushing and we're like, screw it. I'm just going to get a glass of wine. We actually hurt ourselves more because we're not allowing ourselves to get back to neutral. So, what we were designing for with Kin was let's get people back to neutral. And the neurochemical side, we're saying depletion of dopamine, depletion of serotonin, can we boost those two neurotransmitters, which are responsible for, I call it the bliss surfboard on one side it's reward on the other side, it's like willpower, charisma, charm, confidence, pleasure. And so how can we restock those in our brain? So, we're back to neutral and people actually feel that lift and then energize and add some other benefits from there.
Robbie Shaw:
I really love it. I love the discussion of moods because you took it to a whole nother level. But when I think about moods, I work in mental health and I always tell my wife, there needs to be a t-shirt that says moods are underrated because nobody talks about moods. And I always use the example. I can walk down the street and see a tree. And if I woke up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever you want to call it, I'm sure you could explain that chemically. But either way, I'm in a shitty mood and I'm looking at a tree and I could see the dead bark and I'll see the leaves and the darkness of it. And then in a good mood, it's like, ah, I see the life in it. And it's green. There's this filter that the mood creates. And I love the fact that you've got something that is chemically increasing that without all the consequences.
Jen Batchelor:
You'll see on my social media, I talk a lot about the soft magic of willpower and perspective, and state of mind, our culture treats those things as part and parcel of this broader umbrella of magical thinking. It's like, ooh, yeah, if I only had the stamina, the mental power to do it, and it's a magical thing. No, it's a tangible thing that you can affect change around.
It's very tangible. So, shifting perspective, literally as it is just the act of switching from a parasympathetic nervous system to sympathetic nervous system. Puts you in a totally different frame of mind to your point of how you're going to perceive that tree. Is it ominous? Is it flourishing? Is the glass half full, glass half empty.
So, if I can have this, if I can actually just nourish myself in this way, just by focusing on it and by incorporating the right ingredients, that's empowering to me, even if it's not a precise, even if I don't have a guarantee of where I'm going to end up, what mood or not just the mood, but like how I'm to feel. Am I going to be able to be chipper and happy with that person that I don't want to see? Maybe not, but at least it doesn't bother me so much when they do the thing that bothers me. Do you know what I'm saying?
You can soften things a little bit. So, you have that buffer. And that to me was, I have a tenure as a meditator, specifically transcendental meditation really gifted me that buffer. And breathwork meditation I do put them on a similar plane as nootropics as the ingredients and the euphoric approach that we've taken is very similar to that.
Robbie Shaw:
How did you start going down the path of so many of those modalities? I understand that you did live in the east and the culture probably lended itself to that. How did you start learning about all this stuff? I mean, these chemicals, how did you get into that?
Jen Batchelor:
I mean, it started just by immersing myself in meditation. That certainly was the big unlock for me. And the question was what's the right meditation strategy for me, and this is pre Headspace. But I think we're all of the same mind. Like how do I get in where I fit in? I'm having a lot of trouble just sitting in silence. So, there must be a method that will help me be a good meditator. And then you find out like, when you're finally free of that notion is when you realize, we're the only things that get in our way. Especially when it comes to meditation.
Robbie Shaw:
It's not a competition.
Jen Batchelor:
No, and you don't have to reach Nirvana to appreciate that. You can actually just get into a rhythm of conversing with your intuition, your internal knowledge. So, it did take me a bit of practice, meaning like twice a day for five straight years. And then journaling obviously, and then going and immersing myself. I went and I studied Ayurvedic medicine at a program in the Berkshires in Massachusetts that is extremely comprehensive. So, we dove into everything. And of course, with the intention of really allowing you to choose something that's calling you within the realm of the Vedic medicine books. There are many, many volumes that cover everything from plastic surgery, if you can believe it, to urbalism, pulse reading, there's just a lot that you can cover them. For me, Vedic psychology was the most interesting, just really resonated with me. And I think overall, the school really reminds you this is not woo-woo.
This is the 3,500 year old practice that is now starting to be proven out by Western medicine and science. And we may not be able to patent all of these things and make money through the realm of pharmaceuticals. But they're real. And so I've started becoming obsessed with being able to marry these modalities, the Eastern modalities that obviously are rooted in so much beautiful tradition and are very sacred with biohacking and the world of precision sort of western world biohacking mentality of, okay, I'm going to use this much dosage of this nootropic and this much of vitamin C. And I'm going to hack my way into being able to wake up in the morning, whatever it is. Because they are symbiotic and I didn't understand why they were relegated.
And like, two separate bottles, why no one had thought to merge these two philosophies, why no one had thought to merge these two ingredients. And so I started really chatting with people from all realms. And my co-founder Matt Cauble, who is a brilliant mind when it comes to formulation. And just thinking about how things come together in a completely non discriminatory way. If these two ingredients work and there's a synergistic effect, we started dabbling with a lot of things early on and just came out on the other side with High Rhode, which was the first ever formulation as you started proving it out one by one. We talked to neuropharmacologists who started talking to endocrinologists, herbalists, food scientists and all these people. How do we create the most symbiotic formula that is rooted in integrity? And that allows us to use as little of each ingredient as possible with the most benefit. And we just pretended alcohol didn't exist.
Robbie Shaw:
Wow.
Finding Balance in Your Journey to Wellness
Charlotte Cameron:
Knowing that you were coming on and had studied that school of thinking, I did some research on Ayurvedic psychology, and at least my understanding from that research is that there's sort of a baseline starting point being happy in your mind and in your heart and in alignment with yourself in terms of starting to look at what works for you. Is there any research or information from your perspective about how alcohol interferes with that process and can get in the way of really being in alignment with yourself?
Jen Batchelor:
It's so individualistic that it's tough to have a blanket answer for that, but it's a really, really good question. There's so much grace in being able to just deconstruct everything that's going on in your life and everyone in your life and just size them up by their elemental values. It's not like this is a bad person, this is a good person.
This is a good behavior, bad behavior. Bad ingredient, good ingredient. It's like, no, this ingredient has a lot of fire and I have a lot of fire. And when I mix the two, what do we always say? You can't fight fire with fire. You're going to come out the other end feeling really out of balance because what your fire actually needs is water, is cooling, is nurturing. And so I think that was like, even at its basic basic level was like, oh, alcohol is actually throwing me out of balance, just chemically and elementally speaking.
So, that made sense to me. Because I would look at some of my friends who would drink and they didn't experience what I experienced necessarily. That for starters was a wake-up call for me. It's just like, okay, well forget about what I want to eliminate from my life. What do I want to introduce more of that keeps me in better balance? That keeps me in my power where I'm able to be grounded, but I'm also able to be creative. I just started incorporating more of those things into my life. And the more I did that, the less room there was for alcohol.
Robbie Shaw:
Man, there's so much there. We dig into alcohol culture quite a bit here. And it's so fun to listen to you talk about that because where you're from and as you mentioned early on the chromosomes and the genetics of culture, alcohol culture, and I call it Eastern culture, they just butt heads. They're just opposites essentially. Alcohol is misleading, it makes you feel all these things that ultimately create the opposite in you. And then we have this country, world, whatever you want to call it, where it's very prominent. And so it begs the question, when we look at our societies and worldly societies, what's going on out there. What's the result of this culture that we're all kind of stuck in.
Jen Batchelor:
We're in a catch 22 right now. There are two fundamental realities that make it so that alcohol is extremely tantalizing for the Western world. And believe me, beer is also very pervasive in the east now. We have absolutely brought alcohol all over the world by now. The first, that feeling of suppression of the things that make the world sharp and scary and annoying. That's actually a surge of something called GABA in the brain. So, when you have GABA in the brain and you're suppressing the anxiety for the moment, you're suppressing that understanding that you are biochemically poisoning your body and your mind, which is what the GABA does so that the body can recalibrate and decide, okay, is this poison deathly. What is going to happen here?
It also plays directly into our dopamine stores. It actually increases dopamine in the moment. Dopamine creates addictive behavior. Dopamine is a little sugar reward from the mice experiments. It's the thing that we're like, ooh, I need more of that. And I need more and more and more of that to feel that good. And so when you have this insatiable threshold, this thing that you can have, you need more of something in order to feel what that first hit made you feel. You have that paradox happening where it's like, you don't even know what your limit is. And this is more pervasive for certain people than other people. We all know that there are different spectrums and of course, genetics plays a major role. The second thing that we have that makes one ingredient extremely sticky is that for 10,000, some odd years, we have socialized the ritual of drinking alcohol, amongst friends as a celebratory thing.
And even in fact, in the beginning, drinking alcohol was a portal to the divine. It was a way for you to actually alter your state so you could communicate with God and the gods, and then come back down to earth and lead your country, lead your empire. So, there's a lot of things culturally associated with drinking that make us feel divine, that make us feel socially accepted and socially in the tribe. And that is all very addictive. We are programmed to be social beings. We want to be together and there's nothing wrong with that. That is actually a part of the alcoholic ritual that I wanted to continue. Charlotte, you mentioned it like, how are we able to do something that is non-alcoholic, but it's still so social. We wouldn't have launched it if it didn't have that built into the program.
Whether it was for the format of the drink, the taste of the drink, the look of the drink, because we knew that we still need to be able to give people that social healing, as we like to call it, the social nourishment of being together at a bar, at a party, at home toasting and having a moment together. It's invaluable, we live off that. That's literally mana to us in pronouns, life force. From a societal standpoint, I would say from a collective consciousness standpoint, that is why it remains very pervasive.
Robbie Shaw:
My mind goes to those early years. We are social beings. Why, when we're 11, 12, 13, 14, are we so uncomfortable in those social situations? Not all of us. I understand. And maybe not why; I kind of know the answer. We have to learn how to be that way. We have to learn how to communicate and to react and converse. But because it's so prevalent in our society, we tend to experiment with alcohol in those ages, which aids in that discomfort. And then leads to everything you just said, dependence, I need it, I can't do it without it. And then all of a sudden you're decades later in life and you still may not know how to communicate, converse, and feel comfortable in those situations without it.
Jen Batchelor:
And I'm not an expert, because I'm about to have a 13 year old in 13 years. So, that's not a lot of time. Apparently I'm hearing that as a parent that goes by in a blink.
And you know what? I can only speak to my own experience. For me it was a lack of spiritual sanctity in my own life. As a 13 year old you're coming of age, as they say. You're coming into, for me, my womanhood. And it's a lot of responsibility. You have to have a certain external perspective of the world after having 13 years of looking internally, my family provides everything for me, everything I get is internal facing and now everything I have to get is external facing. And so you need that extra boost of serotonin to lower inhibition and have that charisma and that confidence. And you need that dopamine to have that validation that you're doing right by said external society.
And so alcohol provides a lot of that at the moment. That's the trick. It really does give that until it doesn't. And as a woman I can only speak to how I felt looking back. Especially in college, it's like my alcohol consumption at the moment gives me that liquid courage, gives me that confidence, makes me feel like I'm part of this group or super charming. But in the morning, when I look back on my night, oh my gosh, was I obnoxious. And oh my gosh, these people really don't respect me as much as they did. And here I thought I was being this empowered enlightened woman, sophisticated, drinking half a bottle of wine and thinking that's what grownups do.
So, I think it is a little bit of, we're really missing rites of passage in society today. We are over glamorizing this world of Rose all day and look at this celebutante, as I like to say, that's drinking in the bathtub and doing whatever it is that looks sexy on Instagram. But if we really talked about it 20 years ago, if you were telling me, I drank a half a bottle of wine to myself in the tub, I'd be like, okay, you need help.
So, the cultures are shifting. And I think as kids, we just want to emulate our heroes. And unfortunately there's been a little bit more of an emphasis in the last 20 to 30 years of people drinking and really glamorizing that. So, I think that just speaks to my story. I know it's different for everyone.
Kin Euphorics’ Influence on Social Culture
Robbie Shaw:
Yeah, totally. I think that probably speaks to a lot of stories. Let's transition a little, I would love to hear a little bit about your new partnership with Bella Hadid. Holy cow. Big deal.
Jen Batchelor:
I mean, this all started last fall. And she's been extremely involved in the business since then. So, even without everything being buttoned up and who were the players and how are we going to do this, and all the numbers and fun things that Rian and Roger, our CFO, COO and my right hand, left brain, all of that had figured out. We had already been working together on at least a weekly basis since we first met. So, it's been great. And in a lot of ways, it's almost business as usual here because we figured out a way to get to work together when we first started the partnership.
And she has a lot of amazing ideas for both of us, it was really important for her to be able to come in as a creative partner and not as a spokesperson per se. We both understood our responsibility as co-founders to represent the brand and to tell our stories. But this is not about Bella Hadid drinking Spritz in some cover shoot. It's really about her integrating her experience, bringing this to her audience, which is such a massive gift to us. I represent the mid to elder millennial and she presents gen Z who ironically and crazy enough are already being dubbed the sober generation. So, she really represents the way that the next generation, those after them are sort of thinking how to drink, how to socialize, how to get confidence, all of the things that we just talked about. So, it's been really exciting just to learn from her in that regard and to collaborate.
Charlotte Cameron:
It's so exciting to see, like you said, tapping into Bella's following, but also you just had a huge presence in New York at Fashion Week, and I'm curious why that kind of event, why that kind of crowd? What is it about the future of this movement? Or maybe I don't want to call it a movement.
Robbie Shaw:
It's a movement, it's a movement.
Charlotte Cameron:
Maybe that is a fair word then. What is it about this collection of people? These events like Fashion Week that are very glamorous and you're very much in the throes of New York when you're at an event like that, what is it that makes that a good area and a good stage for this conversation to take place?
Jen Batchelor:
Back when glam was glam, when fashion was everything in labels for everything, all you ever heard about was champagne popping and this Grey Goose and whatever it was, Bacardi, whatever was sexy at the moment. And now you're hearing about Fashion Week and it's like, oh, I didn't hear about one liquor brand associated at all. I'm sure there were amazing parties thrown by whomever. But at the end of the day, like when you have fashion, culture, art, beauty, leading the country and helping them decide what's sexy, what's cool, what's in.
It's important for exactly what we keep talking about. That's important for the mission to be able to play at that level. Because to me, we owe it to the guest. We owe it to the person who's going to choose this at the bar. I want them to feel like the sexiest person in the room ordering a non-alcoholic drink. And we proved that out three years ago. And we started selling Kin drinks at Cafe Clover in the west village. The drinks were so sexy and beautiful. They had sage and burnt Rosemary's with this beautiful smokiness running through the restaurant. And people would say, oh, we want a round of those. Well, they didn't even ask if there was alcohol in the drink. Right, perfect. I don't want to disrupt your flow. I don't want to disrupt your energy, your vibe.
I want you to drink something that's delicious, that happens to make you feel great that you're not going to regret tomorrow. And it does start with how high we can go in terms of that glam style factor, if only to help the conversation and again, to just do right by the guest.
Charlotte Cameron:
I love redefining the future of glam and what does that really mean?
Jen Batchelor:
I mean, time is a currency right now. It's like, if time is a currency and leisure is the ultimate luxury, then what is it? What's sexier than something that's going to give you more of your time back? What's sexier than something that's going to make you truly experience leisure in your life, because you have more time to do that when you're not hung over all the time? Or you're not in fights with your partner all the time. You know what I mean?
Robbie Shaw:
Wait till you're 44. Really start looking at time. Golly. That is so exciting. So cool. Congratulations on all of that. That aspect of it, it's just brilliant, brilliant avenue in, and often in this podcast, we discuss leading by example. You are doing that. I want to know where you get your support from when times are not so flowery.
Jen Batchelor:
Oh man. Well, my people. Certainly. I mean, there's no way in the world that I would be able to get up every day, do all the things that I need to do as a mom, which by the way, especially now with all of the work that we have on our plates. If I get a fraction of that done, I'm lucky. I definitely crave more time with my baby girl every day. But yeah, my family, my partner, my husband. Being able to work closely with the people that you love, that's nourishment because you get to see immediately the result of your effort. It's a really, really beautiful thing. I don't take it for granted at all. It's always been about the people for me. I'm depleted immediately by the wrong people in the room.
I'm uplifted by the right people in the room. And so it's something as I get older, I'm certainly starting to appreciate a lot, lot more just being able to appreciate those little moments and those folks. My family, certainly, oh my gosh, my mom and dad are like my number one cheerleaders.
Robbie Shaw:
Ah, that's the best.
Jen Batchelor:
Yeah. But I do think it is beyond all that because I realized I started by talking about my routine and trying to just stay well. But even if I was in perfect health, if I didn't have these people in my life, I would not be able to do any of it.
Tips for Continuing Your Journey to Wellness, from Jen of Kin
Charlotte Cameron:
I love that. Jen, one of the things that we really try to do is put tools directly into the hands of the audience here at Champagne Problems. Are there three questions or prompts or even areas you might recommend shining light on that the audience can use at home to sort of start exploring the possibility in their own lives as they renegotiate their relationship with alcohol? Three things that they could really look at or ask themselves.
Jen Batchelor:
Yeah. Even now when people are, oh, how do you do that? Or the number one thing is such disgust. How could you survive a holiday without alcohol? Or how could you survive a first date without alcohol? I like to use the Socratic approach. I don't tell them what to do. It's just like, ask yourself, why do I drink? What does alcohol actually doing for me? Write it down and then be like, well, why? So, I drink alcohol because it gives me confidence. Well, why? Why do I think I need that? You think that confidence is literally coming from the bottle? Why do I need that? How is that physiologically affecting me? Where does confidence actually come from? Get really curious and take it all the way down the line, start unraveling some shit.
You might run into some trauma there. And that's scary for most people. I think that's the thing I had to come to terms with was like, once I go down this well, I might find some monsters down there. I might find some scary things. But you know what? There's amazing support. There are amazing people, podcasts, hello, and people you can speak to that have had this exact same experience. But I think the why exercise is just, again, if you don't get honest with yourself, no, one's going to tell you to your face. They're just not, especially if you're flying under the radar with this impact. Not this disease, not this anything. Right now, it's just an exploration. Right now it's, is this serving me, yes or no? Is this getting in the way of my dreams, yes or no?
If you can't get honest with yourself about that, it's going to be really, really difficult to come around the other side of this and be able to say, you know what, nothing is standing in the way of my dreams, except for me. And I'm here to support me and I'm going to take care of my wellbeing, my mental state, let bygones be bygones on this. And I'm going to pick my battles on that, and I'm just going to focus on the good. There's a lot of power in that, as we said, these thoughts are so incredibly powerful. So, that's one. Obviously I'm a big proponent of meditation, breath work, anything that's going to get your neurochemistry to a place of support. Again, there's no perfect neurochemistry. It's just, can I get my mind? Can I get my endocrine system to a place where it is supporting me in what I want in clarity of mind, in articulation, in sex appeal, in even just believing that I'm sexy. And whatever it is that you want.
And being able to sit down and write a business plan, whatever it is. Magical thinking, it's not going to get you there alone. Obviously you need to support your homeostasis, your wellbeing, your temple. The third thing, it's funny because there are a lot of writers that have beautiful perspectives on this. I think for me in the state that I was in, the stage that I was in, I should say in my life, I really found solace in Gabby Bernstein's writing. It's funny because it feels so far removed from anything that I do today. And I almost want to write to her and let her know what the impact she had on me when I was 22 years old. But it was finding a resource that spoke to me in my language. That's power, is there's no intervention, there's no book. If you don't feel seen and you can't relate and you can't see yourself in the story that's ever going to change anything. And she was that for me when I was 22, and that's now 14 years, 15 years almost. Oh my God.
Robbie Shaw:
Awesome answer. Awesome.
Jen Batchelor:
That is what I see as everyone's life purpose. If you have had somebody, something, someone touch you in a way that improved your life, like at least to me, my only job is to pay that forward times a thousand, however I can. So, I'm grateful for this opportunity to share my story. I'm grateful for the opportunity to answer these great questions. Trust me. I said, I answer questions all day. They're not usually as fun and as good as this.
Robbie Shaw:
Well, you're a wise one, Jen. That was awesome. Jen Batchelor, everybody. Jen of Kin. All right. So, thank you for listening to the interview with Jen Batchelor. I would personally like to do a quick plug on Kin Euphorics because I drink their products. I personally liked the Spritz. So, the Spritz is a little bit more of a pick you up. I feel like I can recall my words better. Lightwave I believe is more of a way to calm you down, get in touch with yourself kind of a feel. I like to pick myself up. I'm a hyperactive son of a bitch anyway, so it just plays right into my personality. I have recently replaced it for coffee in the mornings. And then I also have one before I come in and do recordings.
They're delightful. I recommend them. For the listeners who want to find Jen, you can reach out to her on her Instagram handle, Jen of Kin, J-E-N O-F K-I-N, or the website, kineuphorics.com. The information and opinions shared on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests and are not a substitute for medical advice. If you feel like you may need professional help, here are some resources, for the substance abuse and mental health services administration hotline, call 1-800-662-4357 or visit smsa.gov. For listeners in the Charlotte North Carolina community visit dilworthcenter.org, or call 704-372-6969 or visit theblanchardinstitute.com or call 704-288-1097.