Episode 7: Good Grief
Robbie:
This is Champagne Problems where we come together to explore the gray areas of drinking. This is a judgment free zone where we can all take a look at how we make decisions about our relationship with alcohol.
So grief is an interesting topic. We associate it with losing someone we love, that's the typical story we hear when we hear about someone grieving. We've heard about the steps of grief, and a lot of those are emotional responses to the event. We absolutely experience the same emotions that we do while grieving in many other experiences. For example, career change, behavioral change, relationship changes. There is a sense of loss and there are emotions associated with that. So I want to talk a little bit about the normalization of the grieving process, as opposed to leaving it to the drastic experience of just losing someone you love. There's more to it than that. And we experience it on many more levels than we think we do.
Patrick:
I think the key here is the recognition of it. And with that comes some sense of normalization. The fact that we actually know what's happening emotionally as we're going through this stuff.
Sam:
And I love when people say everyone grieves differently. Because there's no specific way that you have to do this. So there's kind of an expectation around this as a normal thing to go through and bereavement is usually used, again, to the death of a loved one. But bereavement just refers to the period of loss during which grief and mourning can be experienced. So a lot of times we put this timeline on grief or bereavement where it's like, “oh, I should be over that by now.” But I've always seen grief as an opportunity to honor the amount of space that thing took up in my life.
So it doesn't have to be a person. I can grieve my grandmother and say she took up so much space in my life that I spend these emotions honoring that. And it's the same thing if I remove pasta.
Robbie:
Well, what comes to mind for me is identity. When we speak of all these different things that we hypothetically are losing - and it could be a loved one or it could be a job or it could be a girlfriend or a boyfriend or a food or a behavior - but those are often associated with our identities. Or we created an identity around our relationship with that. So when it's eliminated or chosen to be removed, there is a sense of loss.
Sam:
And look, just because you chose the change that resulted in the loss does not mean that you are not able to grieve that loss. So if I choose to leave a job or I choose to leave a relationship, or I choose to remove alcohol, just because that's my choice and I see value coming out of it, it doesn't mean that I don't get to grieve it. Because grief is a normal reaction to loss, right? It's something that we should expect, not judge when it happens.
Grief: What is it?
Robbie:
So today we are joined by Kim Bogert, my friend from junior high. How funny is that? Kim is a grief and meditation coach. What we're going to discuss with Kim today is other forms of grief, how symptoms or emotions that are associated with the grieving process can come from other events and experiences. Welcome to the studio. We're very happy to have you here.
Kim:
Thanks for having me.
Robbie:
Let's start at a high level, dig into traditional grief and the traditional grieving process that most people think about when that word comes up. Would you mind speaking a little bit on that?
Kim:
First of all, it's a topic that we don't really talk about at our dinner tables or in our friend groups. It's this taboo topic that I'm so glad to bring to this table today. It's something that needs to be talked about because we all experience grief at some point in our lives. But I think that traditionally, when we're talking about grief, what we think about is losing a loved one, right? And the definition that I'm bringing to us today is that grief is the normal and natural reaction to loss and also the conflicting feelings caused by the end of a familiar pattern or behavior. So when you think about it that way, we're experiencing levels of loss all the time, all day, all the time, starting at a very young age.
Robbie:
That's really interesting. We are consistently discussing making changes in our lives and we're coming from a wellness perspective and looking at what’s serving us, what’s not, often in this podcast, we're discussing alcohol. But is there grief associated with making behavioral changes that we are so commonly used to?
Kim:
Yes, of course. I mean, look at this past year and being in a pandemic and all the losses that we've suffered during this past year of not getting to be around our friends or our family, or not going to the regularly scheduled coffee shop on the way to work or whatever it is. All of those are changes of behavior, changes of patterns that create grief within our lives. So no wonder that anxiety is high right now, substance use is high right now. I know that substance counselors are booked solid these days, right? There are over 40 types of losses that are identified as producing grief, including divorce, abuse, financial changes, pandemic, moving, going to college. Even happy events can create grief just because it's a change in your life.
Robbie:
When we say grief, what are we talking about?
Kim:
So it’s different for everybody. There's no timeline. Dr. Kubler-Ross came up with these five stages of grief. Denial is the first one. You're not going to believe some situations. But when you've experienced a loss of a loved one or loss in any way, then you're not in denial necessarily. So you're not going through that stage at all. And then the other ones are hit or miss, like some people experience anger. But what we're taught is to just sweep it under the rug and keep on going, right? We're taught very young, these myths of, “keep on going it's okay.” We tell our kids when they come home crying from school, “Don't cry. Tomorrow is another day. Stiff upper lip.”
Identifying Grief
Patrick:
So what are some of the things as a grief coach that you coach your clients to look for to identify their grief? What's the beginning stage of identification?
Kim:
The first part is just having some sort of awareness. ”I'm not sleeping well. I'm feeling anxious all the time.” Those are some indicators of something going on, when you're experiencing these symptoms. And that's when you want to look at what's behind the door.
Patrick:
Now that you've identified these feelings of grief, where do you go from there?
Kim:
So when somebody comes in to talk about grief with me and what they've experienced, the first thing we do is debunking old beliefs of what you've been taught. We've been told “don't feel bad” all our lives when something has gone wrong. Another one is to replace the loss. We all hear “I lost a child and I heard from people it's okay, you can have more children, or at least you have one.” We're taught these things. Another one is grieving alone. If you're going to cry, go to your room and cry. Or I'll give you something to cry about. And then, like we said before, the stiff upper lip of being strong, you've got to be strong, be strong for others, for your kids, for your mom, whatever it is.
The last myth that we hear a lot is that time heals all wounds. And it's really what you do in that time that is healing. So the second thing is to recognize what we're doing to cover up these feelings of grief. What are the short-term energy release behaviors that we're exhibiting? Is it drinking? Is it sleeping too much? Is it eating? Is exercising too much? Even positive behaviors can be covering up grief. So it's unpacking what we've learned, where we've come from and what we're doing to cover up the signs and symptoms of grief. Those are the first two things that we do.
Patrick:
When somebody wants to make a change around their alcohol use, we've talked about all the things that would come with that. Maybe your social network, your normal routine, even the changes in feeling are going to occur with you not having that alcohol to soothe the anxiety or stress of a long day. When we're looking at this from a loss of alcohol use, what are some of the things that you would expect somebody to go through?
Kim:
It's a big change. Isolation, I would imagine being a big one because a lot of your social life, if it's been around drinking, you're going to have to shift some things in there and you're going to feel isolated and alone. So that would be the first thing I would say.
Robbie:
The topic is very fresh I think right now for a lot of people. And when we discuss alcohol consumption and the normalization of it in our culture and society, it's very much a part of our identity. When you and I were talking previously, we discussed identity changes and how that can create emotions associated with grief. I recently had a client who, alcohol is creating a lot of distress in his life. You'd think eliminating that would be a good thing. Right? We're eliminating something that is hurting me in my relationship or whatever it is. My client was sad about the prospect of having to give this up. I think there's quite a few emotions associated with an identity change that drastic.
Kim:
Yeah. I think recovery can often be about dealing with that hole in the soul. Once you remove that, where are these feelings coming from that have you grasping for the alcohol. Now you take away alcohol, let's deal with what that hole in the soul actually is. So there's some self-discovery in there and a lot of self compassion and nurturing along with it.
How to process grief in a healthy way
Patrick:
So, typically we look at grief almost from a shock perspective. Like it's like an unanticipated loss. If we're preparing to lose something and we know that it's coming, or we're doing it intentionally, is there another way to look at grief? What are some of the tips or actions that we can take to prepare ourselves for that process, to make it run a little bit smoother? Are there any?
Kim:
Wouldn't that be lovely if we could prepare ourselves for the grief that's going to happen. And unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. I will relate this to my mom dying. We knew she was dying for the past year, really. We thought that would make it somehow easier. And being in the world of grief, I'm sitting here thinking like, “all right, well, I've been through a loss before, a loss of a child, a loss of a grandparent, pet, divorce. I've been through some losses, certainly I've got this.” And yet this was the biggest beast of them all, perhaps because to some degree I haven't dealt with the past losses of my life. I haven't fully completed those past losses. So, it compounds. grief definitely compound
This is why it's so important to recognize these losses to be grief, even as small as we think that they are, so that we can complete them, so that we're not compounding grief as we go. Because we're bound to experience more losses in life. So I don't know that there's much preparation except for just educating yourself and being willing to talk about grief and not sweeping it under the rug.
Patrick:
I have another question. When you say “completed the grief,” how do we know when a process of grief is completed? How do we differentiate normal anxiety or sadness from the grief process? If I decide that I'm going to give up alcohol use, how do I know when I'm over the hump of grieving that?
Kim:
Well, a lot of what I work on with people is a process called the grief recovery method process. And it takes you through certain steps that at the end, you're feeling lighter, you're feeling better. You've said all the things that you wish you had said to the person that you've lost or to the situation that has passed. It's a matter of going back and making apologies, making forgivenesses, stating things out loud to a person, a partner or therapist or grief recovery specialist or whoever it is. Statements that you wish you would have made, discovering things that you wish had gone differently, or that you had more of, or something was better.
Journaling is big and what I do with people is bring in the mindfulness piece of it. When you are experiencing challenging feelings, the acronym is RAIN, R-A-I-N. So recognizing. Recognizing what's going on in my body, recognizing what thoughts or feelings or behaviors are affecting us.
And then A is allowing the experience to be just as it is. And that's the hard part. That's the, we don't like to feel bad. And we don't like to see our loved ones feel bad. So that's why we're like, “all right, time to move on.” Let's wrap this grief up and continue on. So can you allow it to be just as it is without fixing it, allowing the uncomfortability just to be there. And during this process, a lot of people find it comforting to even place your hand over your heart and offer encouraging words to yourself.
And then I is the investigating and it's investigating with interest, with curiosity and care, asking the question, “what most wants attention and where am I experiencing it in my body?” What am I believing because of this? And what does this vulnerable place want from me right now?
And then N is nurturing, self-compassion. Self-compassion naturally arises in the moments that we recognize suffering. So it can grow by intentionally focusing that attention on ourselves and where the hurt is or where we're experiencing these feelings of unpleasantness in our bodies.
Robbie:
It is deep, it's extremely deep. It butts heads with everything that we've been taught and raised and influenced to do, to really open up and accept and feel comfortable in your discomfort. I don't like to cry. It's extremely vulnerable. So I avoid it and I do what I can to avoid it. And it's the opposite of what I need to do when I have something inside of me that's creating the tendency to cry.
Kim:
I have a personal story. After my mom died, I was having high levels of anxiety and really just tired a lot of the time. And people kept saying to me, I think you have a lot of anger you need to release. I'm like, I don't get angry. I'm not an angry person. I never get angry.
And I really believed that I've been through a lot in my life and anger has not been one of my things. But I kept hearing it. And so at some point, I listened. But I thought, where does one like, scream? I just want to scream and see if that helps, but where can one do that without getting the cops called on you? So I was driving one day in traffic, sitting in a stoplight. And I just let out this blood curdling scream. And it turned into this horrible, ugly cry in the car, in the middle of traffic and people passing me. And after I was finished a few minutes later, I was like, damn, that was amazing. Where has that been?
Processing Grief through Mindfulness
Patrick:
When we're talking about the gray area drinkers that want to take their daily alcohol consumption from four to two drinks, or two drinks to no drinks. We're going to go through that grieving process to some degree. Kim, you mentioned having to recognize that. How important is it to just have somebody to share this with?
Kim:
Very. Mindfulness is what I teach to people working through grief and certainly with when it comes to, not only addiction, but just the average person who's trying to make a change in their behavior. Mindfulness strategies are very effective, but I think that sustained change requires support and connection with another person or group of people.
Patrick:
What are some mindfulness techniques that we could apply in order to move from four drinks to two drinks? How do we start like a mindfulness practice that would be beneficial in attempting to do something?
Kim:
It's a practice, it takes time getting to that point of actual meditation practice. I've been meditating for years and I've had mindfulness practice for years now. It's taken a while for me to notice the effects and the benefits of having a daily mindfulness practice and meditation practice. And I'll differentiate there. When I talk about meditation, I'm talking about the formal practice of meditation, where you're sitting and you're being quiet and you're noticing what thoughts are going on. That's formal meditation. And the informal part is the daily mindfulness practice, where you're taking that meditation practice into your daily routine. So mindful eating, for example, actually taking the time to look at your food, smell it, take a small bite and taste the nuances of it and notice what thoughts are going on, what body sensations are happening. That's what I mean by a mindfulness practice, incorporating that into your daily routine.
It takes time to build that up. And I've noticed that for me, the biggest benefit that has come from a meditation or mindfulness practice is that there is a pause before I react. There's the stimulus and then there's the reaction. And the pause in between those two for me has become greater.
Patrick:
Yeah. And that gives you time to make a different choice. I think that was a perfect way of articulating what I was fishing for. Instead of just mindlessly and automatically reaching into the cooler or nodding at the bartender, you're actually aware of the process that's going on in your head and in your body. And you're able to step back and say, "Okay, well, I'm not going to do that tonight."
Kim:
And there's some planning ahead with that. I got to the point where I was drinking easily a glass or two of wine a night and wanting to cut back. I was planning ahead, like, "All right. It's not going to be all or nothing," because then I'll play that shame game pretty easily to myself. So planning ahead of like, “what do I know happens in this situation that's going to make me want the second, third, fourth glass of wine” and preparing for that pause to be there, instead of just assuming that it's going to take place and I'm going to be able to recognize cue, stop, pause, and react in a mindful way.
Robbie:
Often we use alcohol to suppress negative emotions. Therefore, take that away and those emotions and those things you were suppressing are tenfold. So the preparation for that and discussing mindfulness and having those practices to prepare for that is invaluable.
Kim:
And that's where support comes into because sometimes it is too much to deal with on your own, those feelings that creep in. So it's easier to grab the bottle of wine.
The Benefits of Mindfulness and Meditation
Patrick:
I know, at least for me, I meditate a lot and I use mindfulness practices in every area of my life or at least I attempt to. It happened through a group of people that I hung around with and we all supported each other and encouraged each other to start exploring these practices and philosophies. And there's no way I would have done it on my own. So get with your friends.
Robbie:
Don't be doing this alone. Patrick, I know this is such a part of your practice and passion as well. For our listeners, would you give us as basic of a definition as you can for mindfulness and meditation.
Patrick:
Mindfulness is actually considered a meditation practice. So mindfulness is meditation, but meditation isn't necessarily always mindfulness. There's a bunch of different forms of meditation, but mindfulness is a subset of meditation. But my definition of mindfulness is the practice of being aware of your experience without judgment. And when I say experience, I mean your thoughts, your feelings and your external experience.
Mindfulness in its essence is just being aware of your experience in the moment. There's only one point of reference, but there's many different points of focus that you can attend to at any given moment.
One of the practices is called Vipassana, where you are just paying attention to your breathing. And we're always breathing for the most unless we're dead. So it's something that's always there that you can pay attention to. And it's impossible to pay attention to two things at the same time. So if you're paying attention to your breathing, you can't think. It takes away from the rat race. It's not necessarily about changing the way that you think or changing the way that you feel or managing that stuff or controlling it. It's more about accepting it as it is, not judging it and being okay with that. Because if you can get to a point where what's going on in your head and the emotions that you're feeling in your body no longer have power over your decision-making, that's like total freedom.
You're no longer being controlled by your internal experience. Something can happen in my life that I really don't want to happen. And my thoughts are telling me all this crazy stuff. And I feel like shit, but behind that, there's still this awareness and the stability of, “okay, this is all going to pass.” The probability of you making a poor choice or decision in that timeframe lessens because of that awareness. We tend to believe that that little voice in our head is us and what I always tell people is, "Well, if you think that little voice in your head is you, then what's the thing that can hear it."
And the best thing we can do for that is just be aware of that fact. If you can get to a point where your relationship to your thinking is the same as you, like a crazy person, just whispering in your ear, you can take what you need and leave the rest. When I'm sitting in a group, doing group therapy, or I'm running a group in a treatment center, I'm like, “look, think about how crazy it would be right now if everybody had to verbalize everything that's going on in their head for the next five minutes.” I'm like, “well, that's the information that you're using to make your life decisions off of.”
Robbie:
Thank you for delving into that. Let's do a real quick step 1, 2, 3 for our listeners.
Patrick:
The first step is really two steps. They kind of go together and that's to find some relaxation meditation that you can vibe with, that you can maybe sit with and listen to that can get you to a point where you can sit still and relax for a minute.
And while you're doing that and finding those things, it's also a really good idea to pick up some mindfulness literature, or listen to the mindfulness lectures on the Waking Up app to give you a basic understanding of what you're doing and why you're doing it and what kind of mindset to kind of go into these things with.
And then once you can relax and you can sit in your awareness and let your thoughts and your feelings and your experience come and not really judge it, that's when the real practice comes in. And that's where you're going to have to carve out some time out of your day, to sit still and sit in this space. And the longer you do that, and the more separation you will create between your awareness and your thoughts, your feelings, your experience, and the more separation you have between those two things, the more choice you have.
And the cool thing about it is once you start to see the value in it, it'll grow organically and you'll continue to do it. Until you get to a point where, I think it was Thich Nhat Hanh, who's a famous Buddhist meditation teacher. I think he was on Oprah one time and Oprah asked them, "So how often do you meditate?" And he said, "All the time. "
Robbie:
Yeah. That's sick. The information and opinions shared on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests and not a substitute for medical advice. If you feel like you may need professional help, here are some resources. For the substance abuse and mental health services administration hotline call 1-800-662-4357, or visit samsa.gov. For listeners in the Charlotte, North Carolina community, visit dilworthcenter.org, or call 7-0-4-3-7-2-6-9-6-9. Or visit theblanchardinstitute.com or call 7-0-4-2-8-8-1-0-9-7.