Episode 8: The Gift of Choice
Robbie Shaw:
This is Champagne Problems where we come together to explore the gray areas of drinking. This is a judgment-free zone where we can all take a look at how we make decisions about our relationship with alcohol.
Hello, everybody. We are back in the studio today with episode eight. We are calling this one, The Gift of Choice. And our guest today is Sarah Olin. She is a life coach, career coach, professional coach. She covers a lot of the coaching realm and she is located here in Charlotte, but she works internationally as well. She's a delightful person to speak with on this topic of choice. I would love to hear what my co-hosts think of when we discuss choice.
Patrick Balsley:
The idea of choice has always intrigued me since I've been in recovery. Before I stopped drinking, I didn't really care what anybody had to say about anything, had no desire to explore anything of this sort. But I've been really lucky since I don't really call it a choice to stop drinking, I was kind of forced into it. I've taken a lot of time to reflect on this idea of choice and I've explored a lot of different philosophies and religions understanding what that means.
I've come to the conclusion in my own life that the only way for me to really have a choice in anything is if I'm paying attention to what's happening right now, because so many of the things we do are ingrained where we're making unconscious actions constantly throughout our whole day. But in order for us to actually have a choice, we have to examine what we're doing. We have to be aware of what's happening right in front of us in order to even have the ability to make a choice. And I had no idea that that was even a possibility before I stopped drinking.
What are you all's thoughts on this topic of choice?
Sam Hampson:
It's a newer concept to me. It's timely that we have Sarah on the episode today because I really didn't connect with this idea at all until I started working with her in my professional life. And this may be the case for a lot of folks, where you don't contemplate your choices until you're really sick and tired of what is. And for me, that had nothing to do with alcohol. It was all professional. It was all a misalignment in my core values, who I wanted to be, who I believed myself to be as a person versus the way that I showed up in the world and the way that I was constructing my daily life.
And I still think it's a work in progress for me looking at choice and really understanding that it's not just when things are bad. It's also that I get to choose every single thing, like you're talking about, these autopilot things that we do every single day.
And some days I do a fantastic job and I wake up and I drink the water and I eat the breakfast. And I do all of these things throughout the day that snowball really positively because I actively think about what I'm doing and what I want. And there are other days where I'm in robot mode, and there's a really significant difference at the end of the day.
So for me, it's a work in progress because prior to things not being so pleasant and having to look at my choices, it wasn't something I was doing.
Patrick Balsley:
I think a really cool question is, are we even making choices? I think that's where this whole thing starts, is once you realize how much we run on autopilot and how many choices that we have the ability to make, but we're not doing it just because we're doing the same thing we've always done. It's scary, it's disturbing. For me it was at least.
Robbie Shaw:
For me, it's the thought versus the action. I can choose to do lots of things, but then going and doing them is the other part that actually means something. And I, like you Sam, was never really educated on this. I didn't really speak to anyone on it. I just defaulted through everything. And yes, there were consequences. And I have to explain that a lot of this was during my time in the throes of addiction, where there was no healthy way of processing anything that was going on in my life. There was so much denial and so much dishonesty within myself that I had no idea what it even meant to have a choice.
And of course now, fast forward a bunch of years later, and I'm still being educated on it and applying it in certain areas of my life, and understanding through trial and error that I can make choices and I am in control. I know there's opposing thoughts on that, but in my little life, I can control lots of things about me. I can control how I react to stuff. All my little behaviors throughout the day, I can control those. Do I? No. I'm working on it and I'm learning how, but it's fascinating.
Sam Hampson:
And that you're responsible for your choice. A lot of times I was looking around with a very victim mentality. And Sarah at the time very politely confronted me with wherever there's a complaint, there's a request. So what are you asking for? What do you need? What do you need to do instead? Because it was very much like, “I just don't like this. I don't like that this is what work-life balance looks like in the United States.” Like it was so far out of my control. And yet, there were so many choices throughout my day, all throughout my career path that I wasn't making for myself.
When I started doing those things, my life changed pretty much 180 as far as what was happening. And there was really nothing wrong with what was happening. From the outside, I was super successful at 26 and had a wonderful fiance, had this wonderful life. But I was just really underwhelmed by what I had created, even though I kept being told that it was really impressive. And again, I'm in the field that I want to be in. There were a lot of things that were in line with what I wanted. And there were a lot of things that were really far out of line with what I wanted. So just making those small adjustments makes a world of difference.
Patrick Balsley:
And that's another thing that is terrifying when we're looking at this topic. It's like one different choice can totally change the trajectory of the rest of your life.
There's nothing more true than that. Choosing not to make a choice is a choice in itself. You guys are familiar with this, but it's something that I use quite often as an intervention with people that are in a situation where they can harm themselves or other people. And they get to this point where they're like, "Oh, I don't really care. I'm not going to treatment." And I always tell them, "The decisions that you make over the next 24 to 48 hours are going to have a tremendous impact on the rest of your life." That's a very extreme situation.
In all honesty, some of the choices that we make every day or neglect not to are just as important and can have just as profound an impact on where we're headed.
There's so much power in this topic. And, for people like me that had zero awareness or understanding of the power of choice, once this sits and you roll with it a little bit and have the curiosity to examine where your life is and how just a couple little shifts or turns of the dial can really have a tremendous impact on what your life could become, it's really cool. I'm really pumped to hear what Sarah has to say today.
Discussions with Sarah Olin: Our Choice with Alcohol
Robbie Shaw:
We're here today with Sarah Olin, my long-time friend and former life coach. We are honored that you have agreed to be a part of this. I would like to tell a quick little story. And it is, I ran across Sarah Olin's information like seven years ago or something like that. I was working a completely different job, a whole different industry. And I saw an article about a life coach. And I had done my share of therapy for enough years and thought, "This is something I ought to take a look at," because I was considering moving out of what I was doing professionally.
Her voice automatically drew me in and we developed a relationship pretty quickly. And the part of the story that is fun is I was telling this exact story to my co-hosts and the production team, not knowing the former or the relationships that had already been established with you. And I'm like, "Hey, yeah, yeah, Sarah Olin this, Sarah Olin that. Yeah, she changed my life." And all of a sudden Sam goes, "Oh my gosh, Sarah Olin, she changed my life." And then Meredith's like, "Wait a minute. She changed my life."
So that is how we think of you. And we are once again very delighted that you're here today. So thank you, Sarah.
Sarah Olin:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You all are the best. I'm honored and delighted, and I have the best job in the world. I'm a professional coach and entrepreneur, and I've had the privilege and pleasure of working with everyone from LCSWs to professional athletes, to other entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors, you name it.
Robbie Shaw:
So we have Sarah here today to discuss the power of choice. And the idea is that we would like everyone who's listening to understand that there is a choice. You have a choice. And Sarah is going to help us first recognize that, as well as how to make these choices. So I will start with, what do you think alcohol is often getting in the way of that people might not want to look at?
Sarah Olin:
Oh, I think that we use alcohol to avoid the things that we don't want to deal with about ourselves and about other people as a weapon, or as a way to avoid.
Sam Hampson:
When you're talking about avoiding, the avoidance of others. I've heard you speak before about connection. Can you talk more about that and how alcohol plays a role there?
Sarah Olin:
It's almost like we don't trust ourselves to be able to connect. If you're going into a party or going into a conversation, it's a cheap way to connect. It allows for more confidence.
Sam Hampson:
I think that's so deep though, because what you're really talking about is this fear of inadequacy that we can do something that we're wired to do. Like if I'm scared that I can't go to a party and connect with others, when I really do have everything I need to be able to do that, the fact that you referred to it as like a cheap way to get there.
Robbie Shaw:
And so often we do that early on when we're learning how to exist in those settings. And then, it's not only easier. It's like, you times it by 10, like it's, “ah, I'm not only comfortable. I'm killing it.”
Patrick Balsley:
One of the things that I want to hear from you, Sarah, is, I've had a lot of conversations about taking a good look at our drinking. What do we do after that? When we decide, or if somebody, one of our listeners decides, "Okay, well, let me take a look at my alcohol use. Maybe I'll stop." Or maybe it's sober October, or dry January, or whatever they do. What would you suggest for somebody that, after they've made a decision to not drink for a significant period of time, what would be some of the key things that you would coach somebody through to examine during those times?
Sarah Olin:
Well, the very first thing that I would be interested in is why. Why are they giving up alcohol? Is it to create more possibilities in their lives or to decrease pain?
And in either situation, if that's the case, we really need to get clear about what it's costing us all the way around. So the pain, we're really allowing ourselves to feel the pain and the impact of that choice. And if it's for something else, we've really got to be present to that. And they can actually work together to support you in the choice.
Sam Hampson:
I love that. We've talked a lot about not always pointing out what's wrong with the drinking or that there is even necessarily anything wrong with drinking. The only place we find to go with that question is trying to evaluate what's wrong with it. And I have to consider that may not be the case for a lot of our listeners. So I love that reframe of, “for what are you giving up alcohol or for what are you changing your alcohol use,” because it implies that there's something so much bigger that you want to obtain and maybe alcohol fits with it, but maybe it doesn't.
Sarah Olin:
Right. And a great example of this actually is my mother-in-law. She's lost 50 pounds during the pandemic and her “what for” is her grandkids and health. And she wants to go on this pilgrimage that includes a hundred-mile hike. And at the beginning of the pandemic, she physically couldn't have done it. So she had this big vision to call her forth. And Sam, to what you were pointing to for most people, when they give up something, it's because the pain is so bad or they hate themselves so much versus having a vision that's powerful and beautiful and based in love that's calling them forth.
Sam Hampson:
It's so interesting too, because that goal can pull you forward and sometimes you can lose sight of the whys or the problems or the issues, or even momentarily, it's like, "Oh, well, it's worth it if I'm going to feel like crap again tomorrow." But when you really focus on that bigger future goal, it's like, it can pull you forward in some of those moments that could really make a difference.
How to Socialize When You Don’t Drink
Robbie Shaw:
Gotcha. So I think a lot about how, and we already referred to this a little bit, but there's a dependence that is associated with alcohol specifically in social situations. You learn how to be comfortable. You learn how to be funny, be entertaining, whatever it is you're trying to be around certain groups. You learn those things. And alcohol absolutely makes that easier, possibly more effective.
So if you come to a place that even if there's not all these consequences about your consumption and you just decide you'd like to pull it back a little bit and try a social situation without alcohol, you've got to relearn some stuff, and possibly not even relearn, just learn. How would you coach someone through a scenario like that?
Sarah Olin:
I would go in a slightly different door, Robbie, and look at trust, and trusting ourselves, trusting other people and trusting the process versus having to relearn, because people get funny. But if they trust themselves and they trust that things generally work out including parties and all the things, or if they have a powerful intention. If I have an intention that tonight is really to connect, or to listen, it takes that pressure to perform or be a particular way off of me, and now I'm more interested in you and it's not about my drama.
I think it's funny because that's one of the things I love the most about coaching, is that I get on the phone and for an hour it's no longer about me and it's no longer about my drama and my crap. It's about yours now. I feel much better. Right? So if we can take us out, it can be a really powerful thing.
Sam Hampson:
I think mine was totally different. For me, it was always I felt uncomfortable or I felt fearful about what it was going to be like. And I'm thinking specifically about my best friend's bachelorette party, and thinking how weird it was going to be that I was sober and still going to have to dance with the girls at the bar. And in some of our work together, one of the biggest barriers that was knocked down was you don't actually have to resolve those feelings or that fear to go do it anyway. You can actually do it while you're scared.
So it's not a prerequisite to resolve whatever discomfort or feeling I have around it. As long as I do it, I've already started that new behavior. I've already tried it. I've already learned something. Just knowing that you don't have to resolve very normal feelings around it to go do it anyway.
Sarah Olin:
When fear shows up, I think it's a great opportunity for curiosity and the question, “what do I need? What would support me? How could I set myself up to win at the bachelor party, or going out for the first time and I'm practicing abstinence or whatever it is?”
Following Through with Your Choices
Patrick Balsley:
That's a question I have for you, Sarah. What are some of the tools that you use to help people pump themselves up and build up the courage to walk in those unknown spaces?
Sarah Olin:
Well, I love that this episode is about choice because most people are trying to get to the how, but once you've chosen something, the how starts to work itself out. So really choosing powerfully and then continuing to rechoose and empower your choice.
And it's something we do in different areas, right? For people who are married and in long-term committed relationships, you're rechoosing your choice over and over and over again.
I was working with a client this morning and she was talking about having a hard conversation at work and how to do it. And I said, "We're skipping a step. You haven't actually chosen who you want to be about this. You haven't actually said, 'I'm a leader and this is where I stand.'" And she kept trying to figure out the how before she really chose. So I think that always when the choice is strong, the how becomes easy.
Sam Hampson:
Sarah, you also mentioned that you can create from anywhere, and that you don't have to be at a specific spot on any kind of spectrum or any place in your life to just choose differently, reinvent, and recreate something or create it brand new. Can you talk a little bit about how that would apply to our listeners wanting to take a look at their alcohol use?
Sarah Olin:
Yeah. My yoga teacher used to say every breath you start again. Your whole life starts again with every breath that you take. And if we believe that, then we have infinite chances till we die. There's always an opportunity in the next moment to choose and rechoose. And I think we're so damn hard on ourselves that we don't allow for our own humanity and to try again, and to relate to it as a muscle that we're building versus it's perfect, I did it exactly right.
Robbie Shaw:
I have lots of acquaintances and friends that are in the world of business and sales. And so often, alcohol plays a role in business deals and after hours. Do you ever run across professionals who are in that world and may have to pull alcohol out of it?
Sarah Olin:
For sure. Absolutely. And it can be really, really hard for people. And it's interesting because when I first meet someone who's interested in coming into my practice, we have that conversation, particularly if they're bringing alcohol up as an issue, because if they're actively addicted, coaching is not a good match. I work with lots of people in recovery. And typically, it's a year minimum because the coaching process is confronting.
Sam Hampson:
What do you encourage in that space when we put it in this safe box back there of “that's just the culture of my company or that's just my cultural background”? How do you still make different choices or create from a place where you're already dug into this is just how it is, even though it doesn't work for me?
Sarah Olin:
That's rough. I feel like that is a borderline addiction issue, right? If you see something's not working for you and you continue to choose it, that's a flashing light to me. I think the couples therapist that my husband and I see, I think he does a great job about this. He talks about addiction and alcohol abuse. And many Americans abuse alcohol and aren't necessarily addicted. But I think when it's, “hey, this really isn't working out for me and yet I continue to choose it over and over again…”
Sam Hampson:
Very dark gray.
Sarah Olin:
So I think we've got to be really, really honest with ourselves if we can't make those changes. Why not?
Patrick Balsley:
And then, for the professionals that are in those situations to where they do decide to make a choice, how do you talk to some of your clients to empower them, to stand in that choice comfortably and confidently? What would be some of the coaching techniques that you would use in order to make people empower themselves in a situation like that?
Sarah Olin:
I might look at a couple of different things in that scenario where, one, if they're concerned about it, they might look at having conversations beforehand with different people who are the usual suspects around, "Have a beer, have another one," or that kind of thing, around boundaries. Like, "Hey, I just want you to know I'm taking some time off drinking and I would really appreciate it if you didn't ask me because the answer is no."
And that's a really vulnerable, bold thing. But culturally things are shifting where companies need to be very, very careful around mental health, around what their policies are. These things aren't as permissive as they once were, which I think is a great thing. But I think it takes vulnerability on the part of the individual and ownership to be willing to own their experience and be responsible for it.
People are so nutsy about what other people think. People are going to put their attention on you for 10 seconds and then they're going to be back on themselves. They don't care that much. You're not that important. I'm sorry, but that's part of it too, an overinflated sense of self and ego. If they can have theirs, they don't care what you're doing.
The Importance of Support
Robbie Shaw:
Sarah, how do you think support plays a role in making life-changing choices like this? For someone who's drinking a lot and decides to back out, or at least back out some, what role does support play?
Sarah Olin:
Support is huge. We're hardwired for connection and to be together in community. My job is basically a professional support person and to remind people of what they said, even when they no longer feel like it. That's why people hire me, because they know that alone we're not reliable. Support is huge. It's everything. If you're really wanting to change something or transform something, get supported.
Robbie Shaw:
But it's also extremely hard because you're being honest and truthful and exposing things and vulnerability. And that stuff's hard, especially for someone who falls under the dependence of alcohol.
Sam Hampson:
I think it's so cool that you call that support, because if you would've listed all those things out, I would have called that accountability. And you're calling it support, which feels so loving and warm.
Sarah Olin:
I think accountability is love, but often we don't see it that way or it doesn't occur that way. For a lot of us accountability feels like a punishment and probably because we created it that way.
Sam Hampson:
Sarah, what do you want to say as Sarah Olin, about choice on alcohol use? What are the things that we haven't tapped into that you feel strongly about or that you would share around choice?
Sarah Olin:
Choice is power and choice is freedom. And with alcohol, to me, it's a little trickier because it's personal and you have it, choice. You have a choice. Always, always, always. And that's a powerful thing. It's not something to be victimized by. If you're going to choose something, empower the hell out of it. Just don't use your choices as a weapon against yourself because that's such an unkind thing to do to yourself.
Robbie Shaw:
Choice has always been hard for me because I've always fallen into the "addictive personality." So one day I want to do something and the next day I don't. And I know ultimately I do want to do it, but that next day I've talked myself out of it and convinced myself I don't want it.
Sarah Olin:
I think that's a real normal human thing, that I'll get really excited about writing my book and I'm going to do it and this is it. And then a thousand other things come and it goes to the bottom of the list. Right? And I'm going to be super healthy. I'm having abs this summer, no matter what. And then it's like chips, chips.
So part of choice is commitment and not just our feelings. Feelings are crazy and fabulous, but not reliable. They change like the weather. But when we have really strong commitments, those don't change. Right?
Robbie Shaw:
So how do you create that in people without having to hit some level of major consequence, if not?
Sarah Olin:
It's part of that vision, conversation and alignment. I think about it through the lens of my business and what I'm committed to in the world. There are parts of building a business that I love, and there are parts that suck. It's the same thing with a commitment. And if you're really present to the vision, to the what for, you created it as non-negotiable. Anybody could create that anywhere because they say so. But this is also where that conversation around support comes in, and how do I get my head around that and create it so it's bulletproof.
Patrick Balsley:
Yeah. I wanted to chime in on this because I think those two things go hand in hand. I mean, once that commitment is made, the only way that anyone's ever going to be able to follow through with something like this, support has to be there. It's the only way it's going to happen.
Robbie Shaw:
So part of the strategy is really, really familiarizing with yourself, expecting these things to come up tomorrow or next week or whenever and preparing for them with support and accountability.
Sarah Olin:
Totally. Expect and welcome breakdowns. It's part of life. I think that's part of the problem, is that people think if it's hard, they get like, "Oh, I'm doing it wrong. Or this must not be the thing." It's like, "No, no, that's part of it." It's the full spectrum. Life has great days and shitty days. So you've got to expand your capacity and bandwidth to be with the bad days and the moments that you don't feel like it.
Starting the Process: Determining Your ‘Why’
Sam Hampson:
Sarah, to be totally honest. One of the worst things that we ever did together in our work was me having to create a dream of some sort and draw it. And it was awful. It was very difficult because I had to ask myself, what do I want, what do I want, what do I want? And I'd love for you to just speak a little bit on how does someone create a vision for something different? How do they begin creating?
Sarah Olin:
That is a great question. I think that it depends on the person. For some people, the vision is very close to the surface. For other people, there's work that has to happen before they can get to the vision. Because there's so much, "I never could. My dad always said this about me." There's so much to unpack before you can actually get to the vision. So know thyself and look at what's in the way.
One of the metaphors I use with coaching is to imagine your dream house. You see it. It's for sale. The price is right. It's like, "Glory, it's mine. Woo." And then you get inside and a hoarder lives there. So all the possibilities start to go away. So part of the coaching process is unpacking all the crap so there can be possibility again.
And it's actually scary and dangerous for people if they've never really let themselves want or desire. Like if you've always done what was expected of you and you went to college and then you got the job and then you got the wife and then 2.5 kids and you wake up one day and you're like, "This really sucks." And it's like, well, what do you want?
So it really depends on the person, but it really is that question, what do you want? And then, what's in the way?
Sam Hampson:
I love that you're managing expectations around sometimes you have to clear the garbage out first before you can really get clear to start building or creating. I think it helps normalize for whoever is listening that's like, "I don't even know where to start. Like that all sounds great, but ... " And for those folks, what would you try to reinforce?
Sarah Olin:
Little steps. Read some books, get a therapist, do some more work. I love that old chestnut, You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero. It's so great. It's so basic. It gives you some really fundamental tools, the basics, and the biggest one being, if you don't like something, do something about it.
Sam Hampson:
And I love the start small, because for me, even with that exercise, it was like I quickly realized I had to back it all the way up. And I think at that point, it even started with like, no, literally throughout your day, ask yourself, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want for breakfast? Do you want to be watching TV or do you want to go take a bath instead? You don't want Panera again today for lunch, I promise you. So what do you want?
Patrick Balsley:
I mean, that in itself just breeds mindfulness too. Even if you don't know the answer to it, the fact that you're asking yourself that question all day long, you're becoming more aware of your thought processes, your feelings.
Sam Hampson:
There's also a chance that it translates then into your alcohol use, right? If I want a glass of wine or am I just thirsty?
Sarah Olin:
Well, awareness is the first step in transforming anything, having that awareness. And then the second part is taking aligned action, because if we don't take action, awareness just becomes the booby prize. So it's all of it. And it's progressive. It's one thing at a time.
Robbie Shaw:
I'm constantly thinking about it. But I always think about it differently. I think about the devil on my shoulder and angel on my shoulder. I'm self-conscious because I've constantly dealt with what I consider my self-conscious letting me know that I'm not in line with my morals, or I'm not in line with whatever it is inside of me that I want. I could ask myself what I want, but I'm not sure I'm accurate each time or consistent. But I can listen to myself, and these red flags pop up on how I feel based on a behavior that I just did. And then I can kind of learn from it that way.
Sarah Olin:
There is always a choice. Always, always, always. And choices are phenomenal gifts and opportunities.
Patrick Balsley:
How was it to have the person that changed your life on this podcast today?
Robbie Shaw:
Well, that was just phenomenal to me. I thoroughly enjoyed that. I absolutely admire Sarah Olin for so many reasons. She truly helped me change the course of my life for the better. She's very effective. So having her on here, and being able to pick her brain on this particular topic was an honor for me. And I know other people know her as well, so I assume it was an honor for you all too.
Reflecting on the Champagne Problems Podcast
Patrick Balsley:
I got a question for you, Robbie. Is this what you wanted it to be?
Robbie Shaw:
This is exactly what I wanted it to be, and more. It has so far exceeded my expectations. When I sat down and said, "Hey, I want to create a podcast," this is not what I envisioned. This is so much more than what I envisioned. I don't know how to put it into words, honestly.
So we're wrapping up an eight part series. Today was episode eight called The Gift of Choice. We have covered lots of topics throughout this series from things like the normalization of alcohol to impacts for women to overall wellness to grief. Lots of important bits of information that we're walking away with. I want to ask my co-hosts what you all thought of this series as we wrap it up, and if there's anything that you think our listeners should walk away with, most importantly?
Patrick Balsley:
Anytime I feel that I'm part of anything that falls in line with what I value, I get emotional. This happens when I tell my story, 12 step meetings, it happens when I'm working with families that remind me of mine. This is exactly why I do what I do, because I want people to have access to the information that I didn't have access to when I really needed it the most. And I know for a fact that there's a bunch of people out there struggling right now, there's a bunch of people out there that have taken the last year to examine their lives. Everything it's magnified right now.
One of the things that we like to do as human beings is avoid certain situations. And a lot of the stuff that's happened over the last year has been painful. What a perfect time to have a drink. So I think the timing of what we've done here couldn't have been better. And I'm so happy that I was able to be a part of it and honored honestly.
My hope for the people listening to this podcast is really one thing. And that's to start taking an honest look at their relationship to alcohol. One of the things that we talked about today on this last episode was support. And it was really hard for me to be honest about my relationship with alcohol without actually having conversations with other people.
So I'm hoping that you don't just listen to this podcast by yourself. I hope that you share it. And this leads to conversations within your family, within your friend group. And hopefully you all can start supporting each other to make more healthy choices in your life that are going to have positive impacts on everybody that you not only relate with now, but everybody that you're going to touch in the future. So that's my two cents. I love you guys.
Sam Hampson:
This is not something I expected necessarily to be part of, but I knew that it was happening pretty close to the inception of it, and was like commenting on every post. I was so pumped to hear this information. I actually don't know if it makes any sense at all for us three to come together and not actually talk about our work, but talk about our relationships with alcohol. Because to me that was always really big, that was a missing piece. That was a missing piece of the conversation. And what I needed back when I was taking an honest look at my relationship with alcohol was people to talk to about it without feeling like it was drifting into a lane of calling it problematic or saying that there was anything really concerning about it.
I don't know who started listening to this podcast, right? Like, I don't know why you clicked on it. But I know that if you've made it to this final episode, that there's something speaking to you as far as just questioning.
And so my hope for anyone out there is just that you're able to put alcohol on the table with all of the other life things that you sort through and look at and make choices around. And if you can do that, man, that's a really good start. I mean, the amount of folks over the past year that have a totally new relationship or a completely different relationship with alcohol than ever before, makes this conversation so important. So please, don't be scared to talk about it and think that it has to end in a quitting conversation. Talk to your peeps about it. Talk to anyone about it. Please, just start talking about it.
Robbie Shaw:
Obviously, this was my baby. I do not claim this to be all mine. You all made this what it is, not me. So I can't thank you all enough for that.
And for all the listeners out there, my goal from day one was to inform. That's all it is. We touch on lots of different parts of this thing and all it really reverts back to is having the information. And in the world of alcohol, the majority of people are lacking that information for lots of different reasons. And obviously, in the world that we work in, we get to see the grimy shit. We see the dirt. We see the destruction. And therein lies our passion. And not to say that all drinking goes that way or it's all headed that way or it's all bad. That's not at all what we're doing here. It's informing you of all things alcohol. We want you to make a well-informed decision on your relationship with it, period. Thank you all for listening. Spread love.
The information and opinions shared on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and guests and not a substitute for medical advice. If you feel like you may need professional help, here are some resources. For the substance abuse and mental health services administration hotline call 1-800-662-4357 or visit S-A-M-S-A .gov. For listeners in the Charlotte, North Carolina community visit dilworthcenter.org, or call 704-372-6969. Or visit theblanchardinstitute.com or call 704-288-1097.